Need some range recommendations within an hour of western Howard County

[Boondock Saint]

Why close the thread? This should be of interest to anyone who shoots at AGC, anyone considering joining AGC, or anyone in the future who might run across the thread thinking about joining AGC.

I've got no dog in this fight, but I think it's important to see how AGC has handled this situation to this point and if there will be any change in their policies, to say nothing of their politics, moving forward. It's also important that we keep the back biting to a minimum. After all, AGC does quite a bit for firearm owners in this state.

But this is just one man's opinion. Love it or leave it.

 

[mike_in_md]

OK, I'll call the foul for fabs. Fabs merely explained what happened from his perspective. There is no reason for the message "range that takes you". As if he is the problem. Let's not take it to personal attacks.

No foul, I didn't mean it negatively.

 

[fabsroman]

Can we call a Cease Fire and stand down and use PM to resolve your differences. Request the thread be closed.

I think this thread has run its course as far as IMBL and I are concerned, but I would prefer that it not be closed so anybody else that has a problem with AGC can drag it back up with a new post to it. A closed thread goes off to die and never be resurrected again, which isn't fair to those that have felt slighted by AGC in the past or the future. IMBL already closed the other one I started.

I understand, you love AGC and would prefer that stuff like this never comes up. However, it exists. It might be a lot better for the long run of the sport in central Maryland if AGC is made aware of it and held accountable for it.

I honestly cannot fathom how anybody would think that an RSO yelling at a patron of a range over a matter that is not life threatening, would be a good thing. I know, the RSO takes the position that he politely approached me and whispered sweet nothings in my ear, and I have gone through this much trouble because I have nothing better to do and I am the type of person that gets bent out of shape over the slightest thing whatsoever.

 

[44man]

yall make me real glad we have a farm to shoot on as we please. man alive the ******** flying in both directions.

take some advice from and old fat crippled man and just walk away from all this. you will feel better in the long run.

 

[Erno86]

Not trying to make excuses...but some RSO's have to talk in a loud manner, in order for the ear cloaked perp too hear what he did wrong over the din of noise from rifle, shotgun and pistol fire.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

...
Please, feel free not to respond any more and we can end this back and forth. Take the high road that you are preaching.

So I do as requested and refrain from responding... so then you continue right on bashing me and the AGC. I guess I should not be shocked, should I?

I believe that IMBLITZVT is the one that is running the show now. Fabs is just responding to IMBLITZVT's posts. Point the finger at the right person.

Nope check the OP. If it would have kept to looking for a new range, I would not have said a word. However he wants to complain about me, I think I have every right to respond. As you can see... he goes right on...

No, one was massively deleted and then locked after IMBL posted his PC response after posting a wave of inflammatory responses that he deleted. So, the massively deleted one does not count.

Wave of inflammatory responses... hahaha. You never complained about any of them but the last one before. Now its a wave but lets not let actual events matter! Now you have moved on to criticizing the AGC for other unrelated things that have no bearing on your issue.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

AGC is a good range.

The meetup I tried to organize is over. Lets leave sleeping dogs lie.


Next time it will be a post that I'm going and see if others are also. May be cookies involved

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

There shouldn't have been a problem if each non member has a member as a sponsor and shoots on the sponsors (one) firing lane under the members supervision while they do not shoot and are watching them. That is within the rules.

It didn't seem to me that the event was communicated and organized well on the MDS forum, leaving the impression that a club would have to sponsor it, which in that case the club would likely have to find member volunteers to supervise each non member.

As far as the grill goes...I am not sure what kind of back door politics goes on, but you would think bribing folks in charge with a couple of hotdogs would fix that problem.

Not true at all. The plan was exactly what you mention and was clear on the thread. I had a running list of of members (actually more than needed) and a list of nonmembers to be sponsored in the OP.

Don't even think there wasn't a clear understanding. I won't stand for this

Bottom line we would have had to shoot .22 and that was not going to work. Because some clubs got involved and tried to take over something that was clearly communicated and within the rules and by laws. What a shame.

Whatever you do, don't use the grill. Ever. Even if they offer.

 

[fabsroman]

So I do as requested and refrain from responding... so then you continue right on bashing me and the AGC. I guess I should not be shocked, should I?



Nope check the OP. If it would have kept to looking for a new range, I would not have said a word. However he wants to complain about me, I think I have every right to respond. As you can see... he goes right on...



Wave of inflammatory responses... hahaha. You never complained about any of them but the last one before. Now its a wave but lets not let actual events matter! Now you have moved on to criticizing the AGC for other unrelated things that have no bearing on your issue.

lol - the "wave" started with the initial thread I posted. I read your final post on that thread on June 22nd on my phone when I was at PNC bank in Marriotsville making a couple deposits with my kids, and then drove to AGC to ask for the Form 990 in person to verify your 2,600 member number. Ran into the RSO at the Barnes Range House, whose name I happen to have written down but will refrain from posting, and he could not supply the Form 990. By the time I got home to respond, you had deleted a lot of posts in the thread and closed it. I never complained about them? I texted two friends about that final post of yours, and both friends happen to be members on this board. I could not complain about the posts because you LOCKED the thread and posted your PC response. To sum it up, your posts in this thread are tame compared to that one. Any chance you saved that thread as a pdf before you deleted it?

No worries, soon enough I hope to be able to substantiate or refute your 2,600 member claim. Then again, I guess there could be some wiggle room, with there being 2,600 members with not all 2,600 being paying members because of life time range badges, etc.

You can do better. Break out the nitro.

 

[fabsroman]

Not true at all. The plan was exactly what you mention and was clear on the thread. I had a lost of members (actually more than needed) and a list of nonmembers to be sponsored.

Don't even think there wasn't a clear understanding. I won't stand for this

Bottom line we would have had to shoot .22 and that was not going to work. Because some clubs got involved and tried to take over something that was clearly communicated and within the rules and by laws.

Alright, I no longer have to guess, and thank you for that response SNI. That clears up what happened summer of 2014 at AGC regarding that get together.

 

[fabsroman]

AGC is a good range.

The meetup I tried to organize is over. Lets leave sleeping dogs lie.


Next time it will be a post that I'm going and see if others are also. May be cookies involved

It would have to be at CCGC, PG Trap & Skeet, Hap Baker, or any other range other than AGC for me to get some cookies. lol

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Alright, I no longer have to guess, and thank you for that response SNI. That clears up what happened summer of 2014 at AGC regarding that get together.

Hopefully I clearly communicated . Didnt know I had a problem with that. Never heard that before.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

lol - the "wave" started with the initial thread I posted. I read your final post on that thread on June 22nd on my phone when I was at PNC bank in Marriotsville making a couple deposits with my kids, and then drove to AGC to ask for the Form 990 in person to verify your 2,600 member number. Ran into the RSO at the Barnes Range House, whose name I happen to have written down but will refrain from posting, and he could not supply the Form 990. By the time I got home to respond, you had deleted a lot of posts in the thread and closed it.

Let me quote you in an email to the President of your club:

The way the thread was handled on MdShooters by AGC’s representative on the website was not good either. After his second to last post, he did the best thing he could by deleting everything but my original post because I was infuriated by his second to last post. Tell him I appreciate his leaving the original post in place, because it was my intent to post the same thing in the Shotguns forum and Recreational Shooting forum, and as many other websites as possible, if he had taken my original post down. However, I think I had already made him aware of that within the thread itself. Just in case you missed his second to last reply,...

So now its waves of horrible posts! Yeah... so you only complained about the last one to the AGC... I guess you were just being nice to me! Give me a break...

No worries, soon enough I hope to be able to substantiate or refute your 2,600 member claim. Then again, I guess there could be some wiggle room, with there being 2,600 members with not all 2,600 being paying members because of life time range badges, etc.

Haha... exactly what case do you win even if I have the number wrong? Would that somehow make you correct about everything else? Why do you care how many members the AGC have anyway? Whats it do you? Just more childish immature BS....

 

[fabsroman]

Hopefully I clearly communicated . Didnt know I had a problem with that. Never heard that before.

Things always get lost in translation. Could not figure out exactly what happened last year from that thread I linked. However, I think I remember you mentioning that it would have been limited to .22. Thing is, was that .22lr, or did it include .22 centerfire too?

See, there can always be more details. lol

 

[fabsroman]

Let me quote you in an email to the President of your club:

So now its waves of horrible posts! Yeah... so you only complained about the last one to the AGC... I guess you were just being nice to me! Give me a break...



Haha... exactly what case do you win even if I have the number wrong? Would that somehow make you correct about everything else? Why do you care how many members the AGC have anyway? Whats it do you? Just more childish immature BS....

Yep, waves of posts of inflammatory posts. It was merely the second to last one that was infuriating and well beyond inflammatory.

I care how many members the AGC has because it is a barometer to how well the 2nd Amendment is doing in Maryland. Over the next decade, those numbers will tell me whether I should put forth any effort, monetarily or time wise, in this fight, or whether I should look to flee the sinking ship and move out of state like Bolts Rock, AJRB, Snallygaster, etc. just recently did. There is more to my request for information than simply to refute your position on the membership. On a tangent off of that, nobody should have to figure out the internal workings of AGC and all its member clubs to determine how to ask for a set of financials. Somebody asks in a thread, the answer should be "PM me an e-mail address and I will send them to you."

Likewise, your very first post to my complaint in the AGC forum should have been, "Thanks for posting about the complaint. I will make sure that this reaches the correct person to address it." and then you should have closed the thread. You eventually got there, but a day late and a dollar short.

Greenbelt Gun Club's meeting with me should have been, "Thanks for your side of the story. We will take it into consideration and get back to you if we need anything else." Nope, instead I was accused of yelling cuss words at the RSO in front of my two young children on Father's Day and I was informed that the RSO approached me and told me in a calm voice to keep my muzzle down range. I was also told about how wonderful a person the RSO is, etc., etc., etc.

Customer service matters to some.

 

[1969sschevelle]

Just kinda scanning this entire thread-a couple things stand out:

I would hope no one is yelling/cussing at anyone on any range .

Loud instructions can be given,but seriously,--yelling and cussing is abuse and that is not tolerated/should not be tolerated. (like lose your position)

Not to mention if a man has his kids with him also. You "dare "a person to escalate the situation, and protect his position as a protector.

I speak loudly when needed ,but have been able to do so for many years without disrespecting
the person/s that I am addressing.

 

[mike_in_md]

Not trying to make excuses...but some RSO's have to talk in a loud manner, in order for the ear cloaked perp too hear what he did wrong over the din of noise from rifle and pistol fire.

I was thinking the same thing. I agree with the reasoning why the RSO's need to shout; that makes perfect sense. However, I wonder what the exact words Fabs is accusing the RSO of saying, the back and forth details, and if there were witnesses (for or against Fabs). Just like Fabs thought the RSO overreacted, the RSO may have thought that Fabs overreacted.

Maybe it is time to get into the details if Fabs is game since it seems that the drama is going to continue.

I do not know Fabs, but my gut is telling me that Fabs overreacted and is still overreacting based on all his posts. Fabs did admit to making a mistake of not taking the right steps to resolve the situation. That's great, but I don't understand how a person in his profession (a lawyer) can forgive himself for making an error that he should be an expert at (resolving issues), but not forgive a RSO (responsible for safety) for shouting at him with hearing protection for breaking a range rule.

 

[MEGARMS]

That's great, but I don't understand how a person in his profession (a lawyer) can forgive himself for making an error that he should be an expert at (resolving issues), but not forgive a RSO (responsible for safety) for shouting at him with hearing protection for breaking a range rule.

Kind of off topic, but I want to meet some of these "problem solving" attorneys that you speak of.

 

[justeric]

Just kinda scanning this entire thread-a couple things stand out:

I would hope no one is yelling/cussing at anyone on any range .

Loud instructions can be given,but seriously,--yelling and cussing is abuse and that is not tolerated/should not be tolerated. (like lose your position)

Not to mention if a man has his kids with him also. You "dare "a person to escalate the situation, and protect his position as a protector.

I speak loudly when needed ,but have been able to do so for many years without disrespecting
the person/s that I am addressing.

Plus one to what he said

 

[fabsroman]

I was thinking the same thing. I agree with the reasoning why the RSO's need to shout; that makes perfect sense. However, I wonder what the exact words Fabs is accusing the RSO of saying, the back and forth details, and if there were witnesses (for or against Fabs). Just like Fabs thought the RSO overreacted, the RSO may have thought that Fabs overreacted.

Maybe it is time to get into the details if Fabs is game since it seems that the drama is going to continue.

I do not know Fabs, but my gut is telling me that Fabs overreacted and is still overreacting based on all his posts. Fabs did admit to making a mistake of not taking the right steps to resolve the situation. That's great, but I don't understand how a person in his profession (a lawyer) can forgive himself for making an error that he should be an expert at (resolving issues), but not forgive a RSO (responsible for safety) for shouting at him with hearing protection for breaking a range rule.

Some of the details.

I was moving from station 4 to station 5 with the o/u cracked open. I bent down to pick up a spent shell that I failed to catch during the round. Supposedly, the muzzle on my shotgun swept somebody to the left of me, but I would argue that point.

The RSO yelled out to me, "FABS, MUZZLE DOWN RANGE". Mind you, I have done this same thing hundreds of times at ATA shoots, practice rounds at other clubs, etc., and never been yelled at.

After being yelled at, I continued on shooting. I finished off another 15 clays and changed stations another 2 times, without mentioning a word to the RSO. Upon walking back to rack my gun, I was asked to pull out my range badge so the RSO could record my range badge number, per range policy. I was assured that I was not in any real trouble, and would not lose my range badge over the incident. Even the two witnesses said so. With my kids right next to me at that point, I then questioned whether it was actually a violation of range rules even when I have the gun broken in half and am changing stations. I was informed that the muzzle must be down range at all times. I told him that was ridiculous. The witnesses confirmed that it was the range's rules. So, how do I have the muzzle pointed down range while changing from station 5 to station 1. That would be a violation each and every time. Either it points toward the shooters on the line, or it points toward the RSO and my kids at some point.

According to Mr. Mendenhall and the others on the Greenbelt Gun Club Board, the RSO and the witnesses maintain that I actually yelled and cussed out the RSO when he asked me for my badge number. Simply put, it did not happen. One of the members of the GGC Board was actually shooting that day on the other trap field, and she said she did not hear anybody yell.

Two members on here spoke to the RSO about the matter, and the RSO never mentioned that I yelled and cussed at him.

So, that is most of it from my perspective, what has been relayed to me by GGC from the RSO's and the witnesses' perspectives, and what has been relayed to me by two friends about the RSO's conversation with them on the subject.

We were in the process of changing shooting stations. Probably would have gone a lot better had the RSO gotten up off his bench, walked over to me, and talked to me about the matter. I have no problem hearing people talk right next to me when I have my foam ear plugs in. No guns are ever loaded while changing stations, and it should have been evident that all guns were in a safe position since everybody was shooting a break open o/u type gun and they were all open at the line as we waited for everybody to be ready to start shooting again.

My kids were asking on the drive home why he yelled at me.