Polymer 80 Raided

[outrider58]

There are a few others making 80% frames now. Glockstore has the SS80 and there are others...Not to mention the companies who are making 80% 1911s and 2011s, Sigs and long guns of several types. Glock and ARs aren't the only game in town.

...and what do they all have in common?
They will all dry up and vanish because of this.
Well played ATF...

 

[grimnar15]

Of course when this happens REAL patriots should be marching on DC but it's doubtful many would do so...they would rather be "law abiding" even if it means being disarmed..

So true!

 

[Badger1]

Does anyone have PACER search experience, or otherwise know whether the warrant is otherwise publicly available? I'm curious to read the full warrant, but haven't used PACER before, and it looks like just searching can get expensive fast.

 

[Kharn]

They want the sales figures because if they are correct about each kit being a pistol, P80 owes 11% Pittman Robinson excise taxes for all of them.

 

[Kharn]

80% arms sells the kits, but they wont allow you to order the jig with the kit. They changed it so that the frame rails now come only with the jig. Seems they had a heads up on this thing.

And they won't let you order one jig without also buying one frame. 3d printer owners would love to pay $30 to throw away the jig and have perfect front and rear rails for their creations, especially since the front rail has a built in locking block that costs $30 alone.

 

[Kharn]

Title 18, Section 921(a)21:

"(29)The term “handgun” means—
(A)a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and
(B)any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be assembled."

So can a P80 be "assembled" from the box, or do the owner's required actions to manufacture the non-firearm in to a firearm and the missing battery drill, vise, dremel, etc make (B) not apply?

 

[teratos]

Title 18, Section 921(a)21:

"(29)The term “handgun” means—
(A)a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and
(B)any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be assembled."

So can a P80 be "assembled" from the box, or do the owner's required actions to manufacture the non-firearm in to a firearm and the missing battery drill, vise, dremel, etc make (B) not apply?

There are actions needed to complete the receiver. You need a drill and Dremel.

 

[fred2207]

Just received an email from Jordan @ JDS with the following statement:


On December 10, 2020, ATF agents entered Polymer 80's warehouse in Nevada. They were seeking out their Polymer 80 BBS branded kits. At the time of this email, we are unaware of any kits being seized and JSD Supply has not been contacted in anyway by ATF. ATF is trying to re-classify an 80% receiver as a firearm because of the other parts it is being sold with. We at JSD Supply have taken the precaution of removing the finishing jig from our Polymer 80 Full Build Kits. If you purchase a full build kit and still require a jig, that will need to be added on as a separate item. We will do everything we can to keep you updated with any news we may hear. Please understand that we may have to make changes to our products on the fly and appreciate everything you do to support us and the industry.

 

[Kharn]

There are actions needed to complete the receiver. You need a drill and Dremel.

That's my point. The industry will be stuck waiting to see if ATF will be able to convince a judge "manufacture" falls under "assemble."

 

[PumpkinScissors]

And they won't let you order one jig without also buying one frame. 3d printer owners would love to pay $30 to throw away the jig and have perfect front and rear rails for their creations, especially since the front rail has a built in locking block that costs $30 alone.

I was going to bring this up. I purchased the jig back during the $20 preorder promo deal. They contacted me earlier this year to tell me that I wouldn't receive the jig unless I ordered a frame. After reminding them that was not the case during the preorder and to either send what I purchased or issue a refund they agreed and sent the jig. No plans for it but I figured for $20 it'd be neat to have.

 

[28Shooter]

And so it begins...should we start worrying about our caulk guns or just take the tube out of the lower?

 

[Muleskinner]

...and what do they all have in common?
They will all dry up and vanish because of this.
Well played ATF...

And ALL of them have approval letters from the ATF.. this could be a play to get the courts to "interpret" the definition of a firearm...(not for the better)

 

[Muleskinner]

Does anyone have PACER search experience, or otherwise know whether the warrant is otherwise publicly available? I'm curious to read the full warrant, but haven't used PACER before, and it looks like just searching can get expensive fast.

I would love to know what probable cause the ATF had and what judge signed off on the warrant

 

[cantstop]

I've thought about this a bit and Polymer80 is a FFL-07 firearms manufacturer. They sell 100% serialized Glock clone frames through FFLs. I'm pretty sure the BATFE has the right to inspect their log books at any given time.

This may just be an attempt to attract eyes to the WSJ story (via associated press) by sensationalizing the title with the words Ghost-Gun Manufacturer Raided.

 

[Muleskinner]

They want the sales figures because if they are correct about each kit being a pistol, P80 owes 11% Pittman Robinson excise taxes for all of them.

Unless poly80 has been seriously misleading it's customers nothing they sell directly is more than 80 percent complete and does not meet the ATFs definition of a firearm. They DO now make complete guns sold by FFLs but their frames and build kits are strictly 80s. No tax required

 

[Muleskinner]

There are actions needed to complete the receiver. You need a drill and Dremel.

Or a pair of nippers and a box cutter

 

[Muleskinner]

Just received an email from Jordan @ JDS with the following statement:


On December 10, 2020, ATF agents entered Polymer 80's warehouse in Nevada. They were seeking out their Polymer 80 BBS branded kits. At the time of this email, we are unaware of any kits being seized and JSD Supply has not been contacted in anyway by ATF. ATF is trying to re-classify an 80% receiver as a firearm because of the other parts it is being sold with. We at JSD Supply have taken the precaution of removing the finishing jig from our Polymer 80 Full Build Kits. If you purchase a full build kit and still require a jig, that will need to be added on as a separate item. We will do everything we can to keep you updated with any news we may hear. Please understand that we may have to make changes to our products on the fly and appreciate everything you do to support us and the industry.

If the ATF is going after build kits selling the jig separately isn't going to save them. IMHO the ATF has once again overreached..

 

[Blacksmith101]

If the ATF is going after build kits selling the jig separately isn't going to save them. IMHO the ATF has once again overreached..

They are just getting an early start on the Biden/Harris Reign of Terror.

 

[Kharn]

Unless poly80 has been seriously misleading it's customers nothing they sell directly is more than 80 percent complete and does not meet the ATFs definition of a firearm. They DO now make complete guns sold by FFLs but their frames and build kits are strictly 80s. No tax required

The ATF is saying P80's kits which are an 80% frame and a complete parts kit in a single box constitute a handgun under 922a29:

(29)The term “handgun” means—
(A)a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and
(B)any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be assembled.

If ATF's interpretation stands, P80 owes taxes for every such 80% + complete parts kit sold.

 

[mikem623]

Also requires work on the front and rear rail assembly to make parts fit.